Adding podcasts to your hobby

The Emperor demands you all must listen to podcasts!

I've spent some time talking to Carl from The Independent Characters about podcasting in the 40k community. I've got some questions that I'm looking to get answers to like how do I find a good one and why don't more people listen?

WARNING: Very, very long post here folks (but lots of good info) so grab yourself a cup of coffee, get comfortable and give this one a read through. It might change how you think about podcasts.

With the recent overhaul of the FTW Weekly podcast review, I thought I might take a closer look at 40k podcasting in general. I've posted before about the "value" of podcasts, but this time, I wanted to get into the process of finding something you like. As someone who doesn't listen to many podcasts, I figured I'd be the perfect person to try and figure out how one goes about finding a "good one."

And after receiving lots of feedback from Bloggers recently, very few of you guys even listen to podcasts at all it seems.

As a side note, the reason I don't listen to many podcasts is due to the language. I do my hobby stuff at home and would listen then, but as a parent who tries to set the example, it can be tough to tell your kids not to use some kinds of language and then turn around and listen to it yourself in front of them.

For those of you who have kids, you know they have the an unbelievable sense of timing and if you're listening to a 3 hour podcast with only one swear word at exactly the 2:59:36 mark, they'll walk in at that very second.
That's just how it works.
For those of you who don't have kids, you'll just have to believe me.
So it doesn't pay for me to listen to them at home if the kids are home and could possibly venture in to see what I'm doing.

But how do you find the right podcast for you?
How do I find the right podcast for me?

And better yet, what is a "good one?"
I know this is subjective and will change for each person since we've all got different tastes. I'm not even going to approach this other than to say we could all probably agree that good sound quality, consistency and professionalism would be a few of those universal qualities.

Trouble is, people don't take the time with podcasting. They try a few podcasts, then give up. And because podcasts are free or nearly free to produce, the ratio of junk to gems is even more extreme. There are a huge number of really bad podcasts out there.
- Mike Egan over at Computer World

Mike goes on to say that finding the right podcast is done through trial and error and can take weeks of wading through junk podcasts to find what you're looking for. To find something you really want to listen to.

With our hobby, we have lots of podcasts out there. More now than we did a year ago for sure. Finding them isn't too hard to do either. Once you find one, you can generally find others by way of link sharing. But that still doesn't help us find what we're looking for.

Some people prefer hobby talk, some like to listen to tactics and others really love to hear rules discussions. Me, I'm hobby talk. Rules and tactics don't do much for me. Talk about modeling or painting and I'm in.

I decided to set out and do some investigation. I went through some podcast sites to see if they "listed" or explained what it is that they do/cover/talk about. I wanted to know if there was a way to find out about the podcast quickly and what they focused on prior to investing tons of my time in trial and error listening. My results were mixed. Of the ones I looked at, some did and some did not.

YES: The Independent Characters
NO: Imperial Vox Cast
YES: The 11th Company
NO: The Battlezone
NO: The Eternal Warriors
NO: The Gamers Lounge
YES: The Imperial Truth
NO: The Overlords

Even then, finding a podcast with a brief explanation of what they do and do not cover still doesn't help us that much. By the trial and error approach, just going through these few podcasts could take considerable time since you'd most likely need to listen two or three episodes until you got a feel for the show and could make an educated decision.

That time adds up fast. Sure you can listen while you're doing other things, but I think you need to pay some attention to what's going on in the episode if you're planning on sifting through the pool of possibilities to weed out the ones that don't interest you.

Still, we're left with trying to figure those out.
Enter Carl from The Independent Characters. I've asked him questions before and I figured I could hound him again for some answers to my questions.

There are a lot of Podcasts out there about 40k right now. The market of them has literally exploded in the last 6-8 months. So finding one that works for you is a tough call. There are a lot of things that go into making a Podcast successful, chemistry of the hosts, preparation, a steady schedule, but does this make them right for you?

For the purposes of this article I am assuming you are looking for a Podcast that covers Warhammer 40k and potentially other miniatures games.

You probably want to take a few things into account:

First of all, iTunes is the big player on the block (Sorry Zune owners, it's true!). iTunes is a free application put out by Apple in support of the Apple iPod and iPhone. You probably already knew that, but for the sake of completeness I included it for you! Pretty much every Podcast out there is indexed on iTunes because it is so popular. With that in mind, it is probably your best place to start your search for the right Podcast for you.

Open iTunes and in the iTunes store do a search in the upper right corner for "Warhammer 40k".

Under the Podcasts section you will now see a listing and logos for some of the Podcasts in the community. However, if you click on the "See All >" link, it will open up a huge list of them that are available.

One thing you want to notice right away is that some shows have a red "explicit" tag that is listed next to them. It is important to note that this tag is not something enforced by iTunes. This is a flag the pod caster sets for them by episode.

Speaking for The Independent Characters, we put the explicit tag on our show every time as we tend to let loose with the occasional swear word. We shoot for a PG rated show. I sometimes think the explicit tag is perhaps a bit too harsh for our show, but I would rather err on the side of caution and not catch any parent by surprise.

Some shows use that explicit tag because they are just that, REALLY explicit. So if you are offended by harsh language I would stay away from those shows with that tag. But again bear in mind it is a flag set by the pod caster. In the opening statements of the show if you hear something like Life After The Cover Saves, "Our goal is to offend every one of our listeners." or Imperial Vox Casts, "If you let your kids listen to our show, you should be a better parent!” take heed. They just might know what they are talking about.

I have noticed a couple of 40k shows out there without the tag, or with the "clean" tag, that are pretty harsh to listen to. So it's really a guideline, but one to take with a grain of salt. There are no set criteria for what is and is not explicit.

If you click on any one of those shows displayed there, you will see some more information about the show, as well as a list of episode currently available. This leads me to my next point. When was the last show uploaded? Are the shows on a regular schedule?

Speaking for myself, it is really tough to get involved with a show that produces content inconsistently or has stopped producing content some time ago.

You may also want to look at how long the show has been around. Are you looking for something new? There are new Podcasts popping up all time. Are you looking for something established? They are there also. The list of episode will show you the dates they were last updated and how frequently.

If you scroll down in any particular Podcasts page within iTunes, you can see reviews of the Podcasts written by listeners just like you. Read through the commentary and see what people have to say about the show.

Additionally, there is typically a link on the left side of the page, below the Podcasts logo, that leads to the shows Website. What does their web presence look like? Do they have an up to date site? Do they have a community? Do these things not matter to you?

Once you have decided to listen to a show, you can stream it directly from iTunes or you can download it to listen to at your leisure. Typically you can tell a lot about the show in the opening few minutes. Pick the latest episode of the show and give it a good ten to fifteen minutes before you make any kind of decision about it though. Unless you know right away that this show isn’t for you, the hosts may take a few minutes to get warmed up!

There are a couple of things you will notice right away. The first is probably the sound quality. Are the hosts able to be heard without too much interference or background noise? Bad audio quality can destroy a show faster than you can say “I can’t hear you.”

Next comes, the aforementioned tone and language of the show. Is this something that is the right fit for you? Only you can answer that question.

Last but not least is the actual content of the show. Are the topics of interest to you? Is the show taking a new angle on anything related to the hobby? How do they differ from other Podcasts you have now listened to?

Ultimately, it all comes down to personal preference. The great thing about there being so many Podcasts is that there is a lot to choose from. But the best thing of all is that there are plenty of FREE Podcasts out there that you can sift through and find something that appeals to you.

Running a regular Podcast takes a LOT of work, and most of the people doing it are doing it for the fun and enjoyment of it. Not very many people involved in Podcasts are media professionals by trade, but each and every one of them takes a lot of pride in what they do. However, some of the shows out there are really amazing when you consider how much is involved in producing a good Podcast. I am confident that there is something out there for everyone. When you find that show that clicks with you, do the hosts a favor, leave them a review on iTunes to help them get noticed more, and share your find with your friends and other hobbyists!

- Carl, Co-Host of The Independent Characters

All that being said, Carl and I went back and forth by way of email for a couple more rounds and he had this to offer as some closing thoughts:

Why don't people listen?
Well probably for a couple reasons, but this is purely a guess on my part.

They don't know about Podcasts
It was only a couple of years ago, maybe a year and a half ago that I actually discovered Podcasts. So it's highly likely there are still people out there who simply do not know how pervasive this medium is at this time.

They don't understand Podcasts
They have heard of them, but they don't realize that you don't need an iPod to listen to a "Podcast". The word itself is synomymous with iPods as it was basically spun off of that technology. However, many people who have heard of them may not realize just how accessable, and free, they are!

They don't have "time" to listen to Podcasts
I call shennanigans on this one, though I suppose it is possible that anyone who doesn't paint their models or have a commute of any length of time may not have the time to listen to Podcasts.

They have no interest in Podcasts
Well this is certainly the group that is the toughest to get to. They have no desire to even try listening to Podcasts, so getting them to sit down and listen to yours (ours) is virtually impossible. Maybe they think podcasts are amateurish or lack professionalism. They may have had a bad experience with one or two...

It is a subset of a subset
It seems to me that Podcasts and Blogs go somewhat hand in hand these days. So if you have people that aren't even reading blogs (and there are many! Shocking I know!), they very likely aren't even aware of Podcasts either.

The cool thing about 40k (or really any game like it) as a hobby is that there is SO much support, Blogs, Wiki, YouTube, Podcasts, Video Podcasts, etc. The list just goes on and on. The great thing about Podcasts is that you can do many of the other aspects of the hobby (in particular painting/assembly) while you listen to them.

And so I'll bring this monster to an end with one question...
"Why do you NOT listen to podcasts?"

Thanks for reading this insanely huge wall of text post and I'm interested in hearing some of your reasons you guys skip podcasts.

Ron, From the WarpIf you've got any questions about something in this post, shoot me a comment and I'll be glad to answer. Make sure to share your hobby tips and thoughts in the comments below!


  1. The problem with most podcasts is the same as the problem with this post: much too long, usually with content unrelated to (and don't care about) what you'd expect from the source.

  2. Why do I NOT listen to podcasts is a hard question for me. I have been listening to podcasts for about 6 years now and I'm grateful that I have a job that I can sit with an ear bud in one ear as I listen for 8 hours a day.

    That being said I currently have 41 podcasts in my podcast downloader (yes I'm one of those people who doesn't use itunes) and some of them have multiple shows a week. But I vary the topics from Comics to Tech To Star Wars to Fan Created Fiction to 40K and Wargaming.

    Also I have been involved in 2 of my own podcasts which have been in hiatus for the last year due to real live infringing on what I am able to do but that's another story.

    One thing a friend of mine (derek from said to me when choosing podcasts to listen to is give the podcast 3 episodes to hook you. We all have bad episodes and once you've had the chance to listen to 3 you should get a feel for the hosts and the style of show.

    Also it depends on the type of show you like. I have taken part in single host, dual host and round table shows and I know from experience that people do prefer one over the other.

    Single Host shows generally will go more in depth on their chosen subject while at the other end of the spectrum round table podcasts won't as there are more people who have an overview of their thoughts... it's not often that you'd want to listen to a 6 hour show going in depth on the one thing... I know I've sat through some in my day.

    Also as Podcasts are personal to each person you will have to look at the interaction and how you would react to the content/hosts. If you find yourself yelling at how wrong your mp3 player is then that might not be a show for you.

    When I was getting into wargaming podcasts about a year ago I tried some and they didn't take. Either I couldn't relate to the hosts or I didn't like they way the podcasters were talking to their listeners... I can only take so much abuse.

    With the searching I came across The Gamers Lounge and the 11th Company who I look forward for their new episodes each week.

    And I have to agree about the language as well as I'm also a parent but I've found I never get to listen to podcasts at home. It's generally in the car or at work so I can limit what the kids hear to something like a 20 minute Aquaman show which has so swearing while we go from a-b or something like The Gamers Lounge which I don't think I've heard a curse word cross their lips.

    Lastly it comes down to the content your listening too...

    If your Looking for a 40K only show then you'd be better off with The 11th Company, Independent Characters and Imperial Voxcast. If you want something that has more Gamers Lounge, Seanhammer and The Eternal Warriors might be more to your liking.

    But I'm one of those extreme listeners as I have the time to listen...

    So since I think I have written more than Ron I'd have to say give each show you try a couple of episodes... There's been show out there with the best production qualities that money can buy but I was unable to relate while the guy who had a stutter and was calling to me with his content was a favourite of mine...

  3. I've been an avid consumer of podcasts for many years longer than I've been into 40K, and I have a substantial commute every day, so that's not the problem...

    The main reason I DON'T listen to many 40K podcasts? Because the vast majority of them are almost exclusively geared towards tournament play, battle reports & listbuilding. Personally I am more involved in the painting/converting/fluff aspects of the hobby than I am playing, so that rules out 80% of the podcasts right off the bat. The Independent Characters & The Eternal Warriors are the main ones that seem to strike a good balance.

  4. "Why do you NOT listen to podcasts?" No pictures. This is a visual hobby - how is a podcast supposed to show off a terrain building technique or the most recent model conversion?

  5. No Pictures.... this is a very accurate concern, and a tough one to address. Many podcasts stick to battle reports, list building, and army reviews specifically because its very hard to discuss hobby aspects in a meaningful way (without pictures or visuals). I am an avid podcast listener, and listen to a wide range of different podcast formats.

    With that in mind, I found that for me, hobby discussion tended to separate into two areas. The first is the classic painting and modeling, which I mention is tough to do well. HeelanHammer is a UK based WHFB podcast that does the painting and modeling side very well in my opinion. They talk a fair amount about different paints they use, what they put together for conversions, and such. Even so, there is a line where the hosts always end up referring the listener to their forum to see the pictures of what they built or painted.

    For me, I found there is another side of the "hobby discussion" on a podcast. This is the side that is more a lively discussion between friends. The type of conversation you have over drinks or dinner after an afternoon or evening of playing games. There are a number of podcasts that I feel do this very well. From an obligatory standpoint, I will say that this is what Jay and I aim for on the Gamers Lounge. I also strongly recommend the Independent Characters, who I feel do an excellent job of presenting a format that makes you feel like your part of their group.

    I feel this second side is equally important for Hobby consideration as the painting/modeling/converting side. It is also less technical, which makes for more inclusive and welcoming conversation. I listen to a number of technical based podcasts, and one of the largest complaints I hear from others is how "dry" the content is. Modeling/Painting/Converting is one of the technical sides to our hobby and can tend to be just as dry if handled in the wrong way.

    Ok, I rambled enough.


  6. @RealGenius
    A valid point - some Podcasts can be incredibly long (ours typically runs about 2.5 hours. What do you consider to be "too long" for a Podcast? What prevents you from pausing it and coming back to it later? Assuming there is a variety of content on the show...

    @Chicago Terrain Factory
    Sure it IS a visual hobby - I couldn't agree more. However, I think there is a lot to SAY about that hobby that is interesting to talk about as well. How many times have you talked 40k over dinner or lunch with friends? I strongly feel you can talk about the hobby without the visual references and make it compelling. But I agree with you that it has to be done correctly.

    @Lord Shaper
    First of all .. 41 Podcasts!? GOOD LORD! Second, you raise some great points about singe, dual and roundtable hosted formats for shows. I hadn't really considered it in depth as we have always just done what felt "right" to us. But you raise some excellent points. I for one do not think I could carry a single host show off. It would have to be a completely different format of course... and I think require a level of talent I just don't have! But I have heard some very good ones. They usually focus on bringing guests in.

    @Nix (Bill)
    I have listened to a couple of other shows attempt to deliver tutorials or battle reports and referring to specific images or slides on their shows. I think this format ultimately fails in that regards since I am typically driving while listening to the show (and I don't have a deathwish), and in general the format just doesn't lend itself well to looking at something while listening. I strongly believe that a carefully worded or well thought out description can go a long way. However, they also say "A picture is worth a thousand words" for a good reason! I applaud those guys for trying something different and attempting to change up the usual format. I just don't think that worked so well.

    I completely agree with you regarding the "type of conversation you have over drinks or dinner after an afternoon or evening of playing games" comment though. That is exactly what The Independent Characters shoot for.

  7. See, I love podcasts. I'm so much of a painter that I'd rather be painting then looking up rules, questions, or reading supplements. I got started with 40k Radio back in the Spencer days, and still listen to those back episodes. Then I got into Worlds End, The Gamers Lounge, and now the Independent Characters. Hell, I'm even advertising with the ICs now.
    As for it not being visual, its something nice to have in the background while you're painting, modelling, or gaming.
    Good article Ron, the recent podcasting boom has really been good for the community!

  8. Why don't I listen to a podcast? I am both a recent entrant into the Warhammer 40K universe and the podcast world (I think I "stumbled" across the Overlords on iTunes one day) but I can definitely say that I don't listen to a podcast due to a lack of chemistry between the podcast hosts (which means I haven't tried the single host format). I particularly like the chemistry that the Overlords and 11th Company bring to the hobby; they make you feel that you are the silent partner sitting at the table. The range is also important since I like a variety of aspects of the hobby, from lists and strategies to what should be binned in 40k (Overlords room 40001). And the final death knell of a podcast....swearing. It is something that really is not necessary for any reason and, as Ron said, it is the one guaranteed time that my kids will walk in to see what I am doing (I listen while painting). If we want to promote the hobby, we need to ensure that the younger ones can participate in a kid friendly atmosphere. I find it unacceptable at the local hobby store and it is the same for podcasts.


  9. @Scott (Anonymous)
    So if we were to put it in movie context. You wouldn't listen to a podcast that was not G rated? PG rated? (certainly not R). I'm trying to gauge your threshold for this. Or is it a "Zero Tolerance" kind of thing?

    Thanks for the feedback!

  10. So far my reasons for not listening are:
    - I don't own an Ipod
    - I'd like to listen using my android phone, which is where I store and listen to my music
    - downloading to the phone is surprisingly less than elegant, and I don't want to download to my desktop just to xfer it, especially if I'm still looking for one I like
    - many sites use file download services which are not mobile-friendly (popups, make an acct, etc...)
    - definitely language; for all the reasons cited above
    - length; 1-3 hour podcasts... really? That might work if I wanted to listen while I paint/build, but (see language above) I usually just listen to/watch tv or a movie. Old habits die hard.
    - I haven't taken the time to do solid research to find the "flavor" I like.
    - I do listen to Jay and Bill once in a while, and the 11th Company crew rarely, but that's because I've met them. That does make a difference for me.

  11. Why do I listen?

    Chemistry pure and simple. If I don't enjoy the banter I won't enjoy the PodCast no matter what the Content is.

    Why don't I listen?

    This is as clear as mud..I don't listen to things I don't need or want to hear about. If I load up a PodCast about 40k I want to hear about 40k and the PodCasters take on the game. I don't want to hear them talk about other games whether they be good or bad. Off Topic is fine with me as long as it is brief. If it is not brief them I will skip to the next PodCast in line even if it is something I happen to agree with because it's not what I am listening for.

  12. Wow. Interesting stuff. Thanks to you guys for the in depth comments here. I appreciate people taking the time to post wht they're really thinking.

  13. Why I don't listen to any podcasts is fairly simple:

    1) I'm opinionated and if I'm listening to a discussion about a topic I may want to put my two cents in.

    2) More than an hour is too long IMO. Games Workshop's 5th Ed podcasts were two hours covering the entirety of the new book.
    I did listen to them and the Dark Eldar and Forge World videos as they gave insight into something unique.

    Relating back to point 1, this was something I was being 'educated' on that I couldn't get elsewhere rather than listening to some guys talking about their interests.

    A long forum post or blog I can skim and/or skip to relevant parts as it si all there to see, while that is harder for a podcast.

    3) My work is noisy, loud, and I get interrupted (even during my break) almost every ten minutes. When I come home I like to be able to sit in silence (or listen to music) and read some blogs / forums for my gaming fix.
    More talking is not what I generally want to deal with.

    Also not a fan of swearing, it is unnecessary. The FTW group is 'clean' for the most part (my rule of thumb is "would I hear it on the Simpsons?") and it doesn't diminish the quality of it, so I see no reason that anyone talking about 40k couldn't do the same as when writing.

  14. Eeesh...after the mess my stepson created on my computer with I-Tunes, I'll never let that thing on my computer ever again...
    Google works fine for finding whatever, and I can just drop and drag most files straight to my blackberry memory stick...
    Still, I'd rather listen to music. I get my fill of 40k through plenty of other means...
    I tried listening to Podcasts while I painted for a while, but listening to people ramble on about 40k wasn't for me.
    The Blackberry is GREAT for having all the codexes and FAQ's in PDF format close at hand. I find that very handy!

  15. As a person who has been involved with many podcasts (both as a content provider, and producer) many of the podcasts out there don't get an audience (or keep) for various reasons.

    1 - Content is king.
    This is true today as when podcasting is born.
    Rambling non-nonsensicalness banter is great when I want to watch monty python, but not all that great in a podcast.

    2 - Production quality
    Listeners need to be able to hear what they are saying. However, content is still king; I have listened to many 'over produced" podcasts that just don't have the content (ironically, a problem in the music industry as well).

    3 - Organization
    Whats in an episode? Do they get to the "meat" of the show? Do they have show notes? Do they have recaps? Correct tags? these things matter.

    4 - Lack of direction
    Do they even know what their podcast is about?
    Individuals may think they are all on the same page, but often, in creative endeavors, they are not.

    5 - Informative v.s entertaining.
    Podcasts can serve two distinct profiles; either informative or entertaining - these have two VERY different audience requirements. Informative podcasts that deliver value (see content above) are enhanced by participants with good speaking skills...if your content value is better be VERY entertaining (hint; most are not).

    6 - Run length
    The most successful podcasts are those which can be listened to during your average commute - less than an hour. Some say the sweet spot is 20-45 min. Any longer, and many you better be very good at holding an audience...

    The great news is that the barrier to entry for new podcasts is very small.
    The bad news is that the barrier to entry for new podcasts is very small.

    Thus, a lot of garbage out there.

    There are TONS of podcasts (good ones too) about podcasting...I would suggest anyone who wants to get into podcasting check many of them out.

  16. @Independant Characters

    First, sorry for the delay in responding! As to the moving rating system, I don't think that fits so it's hard to answer the question you pose. In a movie rating system, I know up front why it's rated that way (viooence, sex, nudity, adult themed, etc) and go into the movie with eyes wide open (no pun intended). With a podcast, there's only the "explicit" rating (on itunes) and that's self policing, not someone else rating it that way. So it's sort of hard to determine up front what constituted the "explicit" rating. On top of that, I can tell my kids that mom and dad are watching a movie not meant for them and close the door, preventing the inadvertant walk in.

    Offensive language and terms don't add to the discussion in any meaningful or constructive way. On top of that, I am encouraging my kids to get into this hobby, so they will come in and out of the room while I am painting and invariably the time they chose to do so is when some word (or a string of them) lets loose!

    Apply your movie analogy now to your favorite local gaming store. Would you bring your kids (for anyone reading that has them) to the store to browse, play, watch if the people in the store let fly with obscenities or talked about inappropriate subject matter not related to the hobby at hand? Probably not. It's a public place. If you want to talk that way, head to someone's house and play there, right? It's private and you can talk all the crap you want to your hearts content. Well, I view the podcast world as having taken the hobby from the privacy of a home and moved it into the public world of a gaming store.

    It's a personal preference on my part. I want to share my enjoyment of the hobby with my kids and I choose to listen to podcasts that I can feel comfortable sharing with them.


  17. "And because podcasts are free or nearly free to produce, the ratio of junk to gems is even more extreme"

    while i agree there are plenty of podcasts that don't fit my tastes, podcasts are anything but free to produce... and i am not just talking money.

    Pat , 11th Company

  18. Pat: I'm sure it's like most other things in this hobby, to do it weel requires a bit of money and even more time.

    I can only speak to what it takes to run a blog, I can't imagine the scheduling for a podcast. That alone would be too much for me.

    I'm sure you can get by with minimal effort and investment, but I suspect the quality will be reflected in the podcast.

  19. This has been an excellent read and some very insightful comments. I can echo Pat's comments though producing a free podcast is anything but free. However, despite the hard work necessary to make things work recently The Overlords are finding things much more rewarding as we are getting a lot more feed back and feel the whole process is more of a two way street.

    I am quite intrigued about the section regarding describing your podcast. Just out of interest, how would you describe the Overlords podcast? The reason I ask is that I have been scratching my head for the last 30 mins and am not sure I can.

  20. I've always thought of podcasts as a hobby but it's not as expensive as you think to put out unless your putting a $ on your time to record and edit.

    With my shows I have my main website hosting which is $10 a month and then I use Libsyn for the show hosting which is again $12 a month. That gives me space for 4 2 hour shows a month easily as it's 250 meg upload to Libsyn. With that they archive older shows so they are still able to be downloaded but there is no bandwidth to pay for if the show gets popular.

    So the $22 a month is really not that much in the scheme of things and there's no excess bandwidth fees compared to having the files self hosted which with some hosting plans there is bandwidth fees and with something like Libyn the download speed is really good.

  21. Inquisitor Steve: Were you asking me how I would descibe them?

  22. @Ron: LOL no but please give it a go if you wish, I'd be quite interested to get someone else's take on it.

    I've been mulling this over some more and feel that as we cover a lot of subjects if I wrote a description I doubt I'd make potential listeners any clearer about our podcast. I think I am stuck on this point and will need to either drop or come up with a description. Again, really good article.


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