These are what my opponents are like

I had to swing by my FLGS this afternoon to pick up some bike bases for the last guy in a bike squad commission I'm working on. I decided to take my army with me in the off chance that I might be able to get a quick game in after shopping.

As luck would have it, I picked up the bases I needed and managed to pick up a game as well.

One of the store regulars was there and offered to play me at 1500 points. Which works perfectly for me since that's all I have. He had Black Templars... with Space Wolf rules... does this sound familiar? The conversaion went just like I thought it would.
It's all I'm going to face until bugs come out in January I'm sure.

But back to our game.
I decided to actually fill the table with 25 percent terrain to see what it's really like. Galaxy in Flames had a post about this the other day so I decided to give it a go.

My opponent rolled for the mission and deployment.
Turned out to be Spearhead with Annihilation.

Since I place the terrain, he chose his deplyment zone and went first, I tried to steal the initiative but failed. It was a fast game, I've found that with my list as it is, my games don't last very long anymore.

It was a victory for me.
3 to 0 Kill points in my favor.

When the dust settled at the end of Turn 5, it all started, the cries of "Coward!"
"If I had my Templars..."
"There was not enough terrain!"
"The dice were against me!"
and most all of the other excuses you can think of.

I don't think I played the game exactly how he thought I was going to. I think in part he was kidding but I also think a small part of him was upset he didn't win with the new Wolves.

I'll be honest, I've played against Eldar and seen less psychic powers flying around the table. I played to the mission objective and didn't take any bait and made calculated moves and shooting. I can tell you this, I felt horribly underpowered facing the new Wolves with all their neat tricks and gadgets. Every time I turned around, it seemed like they had something else that helped them.

Ans since losing graciously is a part of playing, I decided that it was best I remind him of a couple things...
That he chose Wolves
He chose his deployment zone first
His 1500 points were beat by my 830 points (I never used my squads)
And he couldn't beat my immobilised Dreadnought with both arms missing in hand to hand combat with his Character model and full squad.

I guess experience counts for something these days.

Ron, From the WarpIf you've got any questions about something in this post, shoot me a comment and I'll be glad to answer. Make sure to share your hobby tips and thoughts in the comments below!


  1. I hate when that happens. There is one thing to complain that you lost because you made some critical mistakes. I always enjoy reviewing a game afterward. Critiquing play and discussing what either play could have done better, or why they did certain things is always fun when putting minis away.

    I'd say maybe he was just joking around like some people do when the lose, but I get the feeling it clearly wasn't.

  2. I actually think the over-powered discussion of the SW codex, like all the other recent releases, will quickly settle back down to normalcy once they hype dies down...

    Congrats on the win with an under-powered, even after the hype died down, codex. Skill definitely still counts.

  3. This "counts as" thing is total BS Ron, I am with you all the way on this. Although who cares in a pick up game its still a symptom of a greater problem. Nice job showing up this guy who'd rather game the rules than try to play the game.

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  5. You used 25% terrain and he really bitched it wasn't enough? Wow....

    Did you find using 25% terrain changed the way you played the game?

    It's sad that so many gamers think a brand new Codex = Autowin. I bet he hadn't even run his army as Wolves before.

    Anyway, congrats on the win, Ron!

  6. You see the real problem was he used his Templars as a psychic wielding space puppy army, that is blasphemy! He deserved to lose for dishonoring the Templar creed :P

    Seriously though, I am glad you won. I played my Templars against the shiny new codex, I lost in the end but I played too conservatively waiting to see what the new Wolf dex had. I should have stuck to my game plan but I won't make that mistake again against the Space puppies!


  7. Well, my Tyranids are using the SW rules now. See, they um, ate a lot of Space Wolves. Yeah.

    Oh, and my Eldar are using the SW rules too. They um, are all part of the Aspect of the Wolf now.

    Kidding, of course. Knowing how to play your army ftw!

  8. Excellent work sir! Seems the Angels of the Dark still have some spunk in them...

  9. The wolves are quite expensive, I am guessing that it will take some tweaking to get them practical. Plus they are just soooo fluffy, can't help but make fluffy lists:)

  10. MY heart is laughing. on the inside.

    and i know EXACTLY who that was and I haven't been in Va since March.

  11. Sorry to hear that kind of reaction from our FLGS. Normally the players there are very understanding and take their losses graciously. Still, it happens.

    I too am afraid that the Space Wolves hype is affecting most games. Hopefully when it dies down people will start to calm down as well. I've played Space Wolves now since beginning of 3rd edition and it's a bit alarming to see everyone switching to them just because they think it's the new greatest army instead of sitting down, reading their story and deciding to play them for the style or fluff.

  12. Good that you won, sad to hear about the poor sportsmanship.

    I got the new wolves dex, and got a chance to play it today too. After a couple mistakes and absolutely horrendous rolling, I ended up with a loss. But I wasn't in any way worried for the majority of the game. I found that because of pricing on upgrading squads, there weren't alot of guys on the board, and the guys who were on the board, weren't uber powerful, but all well rounded.

    Did your opponent actually take Jaws of the World Wolf? Did you find it did much of anything? My opponent and I kind of agreed it seemed useless with the mech heavy armies used by most.

  13. So Space Wolves aren't a big, shiny "I Win!" button? How shocking!

    This too shall pass. Sanity will return to the 40K landscape... just in time for the 'Nid codex to hit. :D

  14. Its funny because just before you showed up he was reading the codex and I asked him if he was going to have Space Wolf Salamanders, but he said instead he would have Space Wolf Templars.

    In all fairness though some people play 40K, to, well, play. New codexes are exciting for those people. It is impractical with GW pricing to make a new army every time you want to give something else a go. And most everyone has a Space Marine army so its a very practical decision to try them as Space Wolves.

  15. Big Jim: I actually collected the terrain in a quarter of the board to make sure I had the "correct" amount.
    I like lots of terrain or better yet, however much it takes to make a cool looking battlefield with a theme behind it.

    Xzandrate: He did, but couldn't use it on anything of mine. I didn't see the need to get out of my LRs to give him a juicy target to practice on.

  16. I think maybe we're taking this out of context... one of the reasons I always played guard is that I could combine them with my Tau as a Geu'La force or my Tyranids in a genestealer cult.

    I'm last codex style, but I love the new Guard codex. The temptation for every Space Marine Player (and there are a lot) to 'play' wolves for the weekend will have little affect on the metagame.

    The wolves might get great toys but their lack of DS termies and their reliance on close combat means that in the weekends Apocalypse game they were ummm a bit lonely?!?

    JotW only works when you can actually see and be in range of the enemy. The Wolf player was really peeved when he couldn't convince anyone that 'acute senses' could overcome XV25 Stealthsuits...

    Bow down to my technosourcery ... puppy-boy!

  17. Congrats on the win Ron, and for all of us who are cringing at the thought of "Yeah they're (fill in the blank) but I'm using Space Wolves rules", thank you.

    The new rules have some cute tricks, BUT you still have to know how to play the army.

  18. It's so sad to hear stuff like this. But really I find that I almost never play in pick-up games against strangers anymore because I just can't tolerate the whining. I'd rather lose 10 games against my friends in my gaming group than win one game against a whining bad sportsman at whatever game store.

    This is largely why I play 90% of my games at home. So many people are sucking the fun out of the game for me.

  19. As others have said Congrats on the win. To bad it you had to play against someone like that though. I don't mind playing against players who just want to give the 'dex a spin, but I hate the ones who's mini's are grey and change codex's everytime one comes out....

    Hence I can't remember the last time I played in a GW store.

  20. I think its going to take a while for people to get used to the SW codex. I know it took me weeks to fully come to grips with the new C:SM.

    However, I dont believe in using a different codex everytime a new one comes out. Stick to what you have and what you know.

    I am glad that you won because it shows up the fallacy that the SW are the "be all and end all" of Marine codexes and it also shows that player up, lets his true colours show. Humble in Victory and gracious in defeat etc.

  21. lots of psychic powers? sounds like your opponent fell victim to the shiny bobbles rookie mistake. He saw all the new shiny stuff and jammed them into his army list instead of taking a more tried and true approach.

  22. GMSN: There had to of been 3 to 5 psychic powers flying each turn.

    There was something psychic every turn of the game for him. Like I said, I've played against Eldar and seen less psychic stuff.

  23. I dunno. I can sympathise with the BT/SW guy, here. Apart from what sounded like moaning at the end of the game, what have we actually got? A guy who plays Black Templars, who haven't had an update in how long? He wants to try out the new codex, try something new, takes all sorts of psyker powers to see what they do. Why is this a bad thing? Isn't part of the fun of this game being able to try out new rules and new units and new armies and see what you like? Some people will be on the hunt for the new power-build but, when the codex is balanced like SW seems to be, how much harm does that do? Other than giving you some new armies to play against. I would love to try SW, but now I am wondering if people would be looking at me thinking, "power gamer", when I just want to have some fun. Or maybe I am missing the point of this post.

  24. Sholto: It's not about the updates or lack thereof to your particular Codex, some people are still waiting.

    It's not about wanting to try out a new army, I play Dark Angels now that I have the models to build the army I really want to. But I haven't always played Dark Angels.

    It's about the constant hunt for the elusive "winning" army list. It's a question we all have to ask ourselves... How do you play 40k?

    I found it interesting that my opponent, who has played Templars (tried and true) for some time, decided on Wolves (the latest and greatest) for this game instead of his Templars AND when he lost, couldn't lose graciously.
    There is a difference between some good hearted jesting after a game and then there's heartburn over losing.

    I even offered to play him again with the exact same lists
    and we would switch armies.

  25. Sholto, very reasonable and I agree with you. It's totally natural that on the first weekend that the new codex is out, you're going to want to play as that army. Heck I went out and bought the codex and after reading it was like, man, this is a cool army, so much fun stuff and lots of opportunities to play in-character (sagas and oaths).

  26. "Ron-I like lots of terrain or better yet, however much it takes to make a cool looking battlefield with a theme behind it."

    I agree wholeheartedly. I am very much in the themed table and the more terrain the better categories.

    I am currently in the process of building an Ancient Egyptian themed cityfight table.

  27. Psychic powers in a Templar army?

    What have the wolves done to 40K indeed..

  28. I am dreading seeing all of the wannabe space wolf players, now that i have a new codex. I have played the Wolves since I started, it was my first army. I hate all the band wagon people. Play your army,know your army and you can win. The codex is a part of it, but does not replace skill. I play several other armys as well. Good Hunting.

  29. I used to play the puppies way back when; I've had to snap assault cannons off my cyclone terminators and update Blood Claw squads.

    When it seemed like it was going to take GW forever to update SW I went a different direction, Templars. I bought my models, put them together and painted them, then played them and enjoyed them.

    Now that GW has given SW some love I'll try my puppies again, I bought the codex, a couple boxes of wolves, terminators and characters. If I want to play an army I'll make sure I buy and right models and put the right amount of effort into it and will NOT try to pass off any other army using any other armies rules.

  30. People will try the new stuff; pure and simple. If you're a vet of the army, you have no real right to tell someone "get offa ma codex, y' stupid kids!" It's a big enough hobby for a variety of motivations, and people will at least give the new stuff a whirl.

    Especially so if the new army has some shiny new bits; I mean I know the first couple times I rolled out my Tau I was giddy with being able to punch rail gun slugs through tanks, monstrous creatures, and Termiantors. (Yes. I fired Broadsides at Terminators, and it felt GOOD.) I forgot about objectives once or twice, even; I just had that much fun bringing shooty power to the table top.

    i'd say to cut people some slack on proxying. It's one thing if it's a constant thing, but new armies cost time and money, pure and simple. My Daemons have been on the back burner for a while, and I've had Kroot and Space Marines take turns as Bloodletters, for example. I'm still not sure I want to invest the time and $$$ into the daemons on my end. Most people are going to make bloody sure they like an army before full-on committing to the new minis and the practice it takes to get used to/adept with the codex.

    If the guy lost and was a bad sport, it happens. I've had that before.

    It sounds, though, like he didn't bring enough heavy anti-tank; if you're talking 830 points vs. his 1500, I'd wager on about 2 Crusaders and a Dread or two, or something like that.

    If you don't bring the melta (or whatever your codex does to kill AV14) then you're gonna get rolled by Land Raiders and armor, pure and simple.

    There's also the part where people might need to adjust to the new 'dex; I know I'd been a long-time SPace Marine player and Eldar were a huge shock: man, my guys got blown out of a transport and FELL APART; whereas I've seen tactical marines last for a bit against concerted fire.

    As for wolves and psychic stuff...
    I'm not convinced that wolves really NEED that much psychic love thrown around. I'll probably roll with a lone Rune Priest with Living Lightning, a Chooser of the Slain, and something else so he can sit in the back, counter your psychic bits, and fire off his d6 autocannon shots.

    I'm not sure bringing 2-4 HQs with SW is even necessary; I've pointed some up and they get pretty expensive pretty fast. It would not be hard to drop 600-1,000+ points on all four HQs.

    Ultimately, I may roll with the Wolves because I like the theme and modeling opportunities, AND think I can do well with them.

  31. Hopefully after the Codex has been out for a while, ppl will get over the desire to play "counts as" and either go back to their army or build an actual SW force.

    What really sucks was the poor sportsmanship, though. Man, that's rough. I don't go to FLGSs as much as I used to purely because I would see a lot of that poor sportsmanship and whining going on. There were a few guys who were a joy to game with, but everyone else would mostly kill the mood.

  32. @Raptor: Damn straight, too many psychic powers that are too over the top in the new Dex. very not SWish.

    @Ron: Sorry to hear that you had such an encounter, it makes me sad every time I hear similar tales of such poor sportsmanship when it is just meant to be a fun pick-up game.

  33. About a year ago, I was playing wolf models with vanila codex because all the prices on wolves were just to steep. I like the new codex and I understand how tempting all the characters are but I think the challenge is going to be choosing the right HQ models instead of going overboard. It would be easy to have a 30 model army for 1500 points and that isn't so overpowered if you ask me.

  34. Congrats on the win Ron, and the pick up game. Sorry to hear about the bad sportsmanship though. I know that I can come off as a bad sport when I loose but it rarely has anything to do with the opponent. For me it almost always boils back to an error I made that I couldn’t get around, and it is at my self that I am unsportsmanlike to. Now I please don’t take any of this wrong I am not a bad sport I loose more than I win, there are just times when my mistakes weigh on me. I am normally a good person to play against, or so I hope anyways.
    It’s a shame that this hobby is so expensive to start up a new army that you tend to get behind the curve when a new codex comes out. You get to a point where you want to start a new army and you hear that a new codex is coming out but you don’t want to go out and buy a bunch of stuff, because you don’t know what is going to be cool in the new book. Then you are not really sure which new models are coming out and how they will look with the older stuff. Then there is the whole slew of well what conversions can I make (if your into that). So unless you do nothing but save up for that day you are going to have to buy your stuff a bit here and a bit there, which once you get all that you need build and painted you are bored with it. And then the cycle starts over, well for some anyways.
    Not trying to bash GW but it would be nice to have some lead time for new models, books, and the like. It would even be kind of cool if they were to release some of the models ahead of the book so you can have something to look forward too. They already give you the teasers in the WD, why not models too? That’s just my take on it, sorry for the derail.


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